Questions About Eternal Torment

An article titled "Thirty Questions for Teachers of Eternal Torment" seemed
to call for my response. So, I will take that list of questions and respond
to each one as time permits me to give it my attention.

Question #9

If you insist that Mark 9 is referring to the torment of souls by 'fire' and
'worms' for all eternity, then can you please explain also how fire and
worms torment a dead body in Isaiah 66:24? If you insist that the dead
bodies of Isaiah 66:24 are also immortal souls then by what rule of
interpretation is this determined or even allowable?

Answer: See the answer to question #8. Fire and worms are types of the
actual antitype. The antitype will be like fire and worms, but something we
cannot yet fully comprehend anymore than we can comprehend the glory and
ecstasy of heaven. The fire and worms speak more of the picture of horrible
defeat and a disgusting aftermath of physical defeat and death. The fire and
worms did not torment dead bodies, but reduced their honor to repulsiveness.
To be reduced to repulsiveness and shame where the worm does not die and the
fire is not quenched, means that there will be no end to the repulsive and
shameful status.

The rich man in Luke 16:19f is a more visible antitype. He was reduced to a
horrible and repulsive end-result of selfish living. He is pictured in
torment in flames, and he is not annihilated. It is not an existence of no
torment or even brief torment. The worm is not mentioned specifically, but
perhaps it is illustrated in his mental torment of "remembering" what he had
and how foolish he was with it, and the dread of potentially hearing his
brothers' tormenting cries if something drastic does not turn them around
before it is too late. There is a gnawing consciousness of regret and a fear
and dread for others coming there too. "The fire is not quenched" would
speak of his defeat in his conscious or unconscious war against God, and the
torment in flames is now very conscious to himself and all who read about it
in this life.

But, since our questioner has already indicated that Gehenna is merely the
garbage dump outside literal, earthly Jerusalem, we need to return a few
questions to him for him to explain.

1) Are all the wicked going to be thrown into the garbage dump outside
Jerusalem? Is that Gehenna fire?

2) If not, where is the Gehenna fire?

3) Will all wicked suffer the same fate as the rich man (Luke 16:19f)? If
not, why is he tormented after death in flames and expecting the same for
his brothers, while others only have to dread maggots eating the bodies and
fire consuming their bodies after they die?

4) If there is no immortal aspect of the soul, why was the rich man not
annihilated rather than suffering in torment?

5) If there is an immortal aspect of the soul, how does the "worm" and
"fire" not dying have any effect or bearing on that soul?

Any problems you see in my position are far less than the problems I can see
in your position. It is easy for you to list questions like Satan asked of
Eve to cause her doubt in God's testimony. It is another thing for you to
answer questions asked back to you, which have power to cause even more
doubt in the soundness of your alternative position.

Question #10

Scripturally speaking, is an 'unquenchable fire' one that never
goes out? (Jer 7:20, 17:27, Ezek 20:47-48) When you preach that Hell is an
'unquenchable fire' do you also quote these verses to show the Biblical use
of this phrase? Aren't we supposed to let the Bible define its own language?

Answer: First, let us look at the passages you are listing. Jer.7:20 speaks
of God's fury and anger burning and not quenched. In other words there is no
way to stop God's fury against that place. Jer.17:27 speaks of fire that
will not be quenched to stop it from devouring the palaces of Jerusalem.
Ezekiel 20:47-48 speaks of a fire that would consume the forest of the
South, and again, nothing would be able to stop it or quench it from doing
what was intended. Now, the Gehenna fire of Mark 9:42-48 is also a fire that
"never shall be quenched". There is no way to stop it if one chooses to live
a life of sin. In the other cases we saw a fury or a fire that would not be
quenched to stop it from doing the intended thing against a people or place.
But, Jesus is not saying in Mark 9 that you will not be able to stop the
fire or quench it. He says that it "NEVER SHALL BE QUENCHED".

In the passages you listed there is a fury or fire that will be
accomplishing an intended judgment against a people or place and nothing
will be able to stop it from being completed. In the words of Jesus there is
a destiny beyond this temporal world in which the fire itself will never be
quenched. It is a fire that will not be put out.

Do you preach that Hell is an "unquenchable fire"? Jesus did. Now, it seems
that you think that the wicked are only going to have the shame of their
bodies thrown into the garbage dump outside Jerusalem. How is that worse
than plucking out my eye and living possibly 30 years without it? If my
body only is cast into a literal fire in the Valley of Hinnom, how is that
going to effect me at all? Will my soul be in that body and conscious of
burning? Will I be alive and sensing the maggots eating my flesh, and the
fire burning my body of flesh?

I would teach that there are two ways for something to be "unquenchable".
First, it can be unquenchable in purpose. That is, there is no way to stop
the fury or fire from happening and accomplishing its intended purpose. I
would appeal to the verses you used to show that to be the case. Secondly,
it can be unquenchable in nature. That is, it has a quality of nature that
it cannot be put out or quenched. Inasmuch as Jesus is speaking of the
nature of the fire, and not merely the purpose of the fire, we are to
understand that the Gehenna fire has an unquenchable nature. So, let us look
at the passage again:

Mark 9:43-48

43 And if thy hand cause thee to stumble, cut it off: it is good for thee to
enter into life maimed, rather than having thy two hands to go into hell,
into the unquenchable fire.

44 (where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.)

45 And if thy foot cause thee to stumble, cut it off: it is good for thee to
enter into life halt, rather than having thy two feet to be cast into hell.

46 (where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.)

47 And if thine eye cause thee to stumble, cast it out: it is good for thee
to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes
to be cast into hell;

48 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
ASV

Verse 43 mentions Gehenna, the unquenchable fire. It does not mention just
worms in general, but "their worm" dieth not (verse 48). In physical death
where a man's body is eaten by maggots, there is the finishing off of the
body and the dying of their worm. But, there is a different nature involved
in this visual scene. Their worm does not die, which means that there is not
a finished job, but the work of the worm is never finished and the work of
the fire is never finished. The remains of the defeated enemy of God does
not cease to exist. So, here the Gehenna fire is longer than living a life
without a hand, foot, or eye. The temporal is contrasted with the nature of
Gehenna fire. The trade-off is made clear by the nature of the two worlds.
One world is temporal. You can live a temporal life avoiding sin even at the
cost of loss of hand, foot, or eye, but you the alternative if you don't
fight against sin is the eternal nature of the Gehenna fire, the eternal
shame and eternal dishonor associated with what remains in permanent
existence. As the rich man, we might lift up our eyes in the flames of
torment, and wish for relief. We would wish for swift non-existence. We
would wish for time in the flesh to make things right. We would wish to
never hear the sounds of others that we love being tormented in those
flames. But, we get no relief. The fire is not quenched, and our existence
does not cease, and the worm is never finished.

The Bible does define its own language, and "fire is not quenched" can have
the meaning in one context of a temporal fire that will not be quenched
before accomplishing its temporal purpose, and in another context speak of
things beyond this life in the flesh, where temporal things are gone and the
nature of the fire that is unquenchable in nature is because it is not a
temporal world. The same time contrast in seen in Matt.25:33ff where a brief
life of failing to do good to others can result in "the everlasting fire
prepared for the devil and his angels". Here is it the nature of a brief
life contrasted with the "everlasting" nature of that place prepared for the
devil and his angels and men who consciously or unconsciously gave their
time to do his bidding and failing to do God's bidding. So, unquenchable
fire is "everlasting fire" in these words of Jesus, and he was speaking of
the next world beyond this fleshly and temporal world in the flesh. So,
"unquenchable fire" may be unquenchable in purpose in one context and
unquenchable in nature in another. In fact, that is the truth of the matter.

Now, since you say that "Gehenna" is simply that temporal garbage dump
outside literal Jerusalem, would you please answer a few questions
pertaining to your claim and what Jesus is describing here. Your position
would mean that only our bodies will be cast into that garbage dump outside
Jerusalem. When I die and my spirit is separated from my body, what will I
care what is done with my body? I don't care if my body is burned to ashes,
and I certainly would not worry whether it was thrown into that garbage dump
outside Jerusalem. Why would I trade off an eye, hand, or foot to avoid my
body getting thrown into that Jerusalem garbage dump?

So far, we have examined your questions, but we have also turned some
questions back to you who teach Gehenna is the garbage dump at Jerusalem and
who teach annihilation of the body, soul, and spirit. So, remember that if
you have thirty questions for those who teach eternal torment, we have more
questions for you who teach no torment or only brief torment. Are you as
prepared to answer our questions as we have been with yours?

Would you give us your answers if we wrote an article titled:
"Thirty Questions for Teachers of No Torment or Brief Torment"???

Terry W. Benton

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